In the world of Ancestral Practices, the goal is to live in harmony with nature and each other. The community is based on respect for the earth and one another and an appreciation for the great diversity of life. This is where differences are celebrated, but all members participate equally in decision-making processes.
In this episode, Dr. Norissa and Dr. Bukky, the podcast hosts, are joined by Simone Arthur, who is a spiritual adviser and an intuitive reader. Simone shares about herself, how they met with Dr. Norissa, love language with the ancestors, what Christianity was like for Simone, Advice to newbies on ancestral practices, and going back to the land. Simone Arthur also sheds more light on Christianity in conjunction with ancestral practices, who spirits are, how Simone cultivated her gift in the closet, negative reactions in ancestral practices, roles that rituals play in the liberation process, listening to ancestors, and the meaning of liberation.
Timestamps
[01:06] About Simone Arthur
[04:18] How Dr. Norissa and Simone met
[09:40] Love language with the ancestors
[12:56] What Christianity was like for Simone
[15:15] Advice to newbies on ancestral practices
[19:10] Going back to the land
[22:04] Christianity in conjunction with ancestral practices
[24:53] Who are spirits?
[29:06] How Simone cultivated her gift in the closet
[34:49] Negative reactions in ancestral practices
[38:29] Roles that rituals. play in the liberation process
[47:18] Listening to ancestors
[53:48] Meaning of liberation
Notable Quotes
(08:58) “Spiritually, you have to trust and obey.”
(09:41) “We all have a love language with the ancestors in our own ways.”
(23:24) “My ancestral alter is the bible.”
(36:21) “Mental health and spirituality comes together.”
(41:51) “East is spirit.”
(45:30) “If people of color go back to who they are, they will not be having some of the struggles they are having.”
(49:44) “When something keeps repeating itself all the time, you have to pay attention.”
(49:55) “We have so distanced ourselves from ourselves.”
(54:26) “When you start in the truth of who you are, regardless of what the world has to say against you that invites the energy and path to true liberation.”
Relevant Links
Connect with our guest Simone Arthur
Website: www.readingsbysimone.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sukasimone/
Radical Remembering Podcast
Website: https://radicalremembering.com/
Connect with Dr. Norissa
Connect with Dr. Bukky
Radical Remembering is a podcast that will significantly impact your life. Radical Remembering aims to inspire, support, and touch your heart through your liberation process. Thank you for listening to the Radical Remembering podcast! Listen to our next podcast and tell a friend about us.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 00:01
Welcome to radical remembering with psychologists
Dr. Norissa Williams: 00:04
Dr. Norissa
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 00:05
And Dr. Bukky
Dr. Norisaa : 00:06
This is a weekly conversation where we explore the ways we've internalized oppression and consider what it really means to be liberated. Each episode will leave you with intimate knowledge of the liberation process, sprinkle a little healing magic and leave you with wisdom for your journey. What's up, everybody? Welcome to radical remembering. Today we have the fabulous Simone Arthur with us. You all know I’ve talked to her; I’ve mentioned her in a couple of episodes, we are leaning more into the conversation around ancestral practices today. So, let me pass it to my co-host, Norissa, go ahead.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 00:42
Welcome, welcome, welcome. So, you've definitely heard me mention how instrumental Simone has been in my own development, my spiritual practices, so a lot of what you see here, and have heard here have been, as you know, was influenced by Simone. So, I'm glad to have you here today. So, let's start with Simone. Let's hear who you are, how you got here.
Simone Arthur: 01:03
Oh, wow. You’ve got enough time? Well, how did I get here? This spiritual journey actually started for me when I was in my mid 20s and I'm now in my late 40s, so you guys could do the addition and subtraction, and I describe it as it was one bright, sunny summer, Sunday afternoon and I had decided to go and get baptized on a spiritual Baptist faith, which was founded in Trinidad and Tobago. And I just thought that with this practice, they go and drop you into water three times, Father, Son and Holy Spirit and then you come out, and you're done. But as black folks, as indigenous people, we have to go through it, so there were a few sessions where I had to, just to shorten up the story, had to stand in front of the altar, and go into deep meditation. And during that time, I remember saying why am I here? This, I'm hot, and then it just happened, my grandmother appeared, and she could hear me and I could hear her, see her. And I started bawling, because first of all, my grandmother is here, she's gone and she's talking to me, and I can hear and she can. So, from there, this gift of me being a medium, and an intuitive reader, and a spiritualist started. And my love language with the ancestors incorporates all of my senses, meaning I can hear them, I can feel them, I can see them, I can taste them, smell them, and it became a complete lifestyle change for me, because this is not something that you can just put away and pick back up, this is my everyday life. So being in my late 20s, where all I used to do was put on a miniskirt and go to soccer that every weekend, whether it's winter or not, I had to incorporate having an altar in my home, learning how to dress candles, how to pray, how to meditate, how to honor my ancestors, and I still kept that a secret. My family didn't know I had it, some close friends knew I had because it benefited them. But then, in my mid to early 40s, spirit was like, so when you want to put us first? Because they were always in the background when you want to put us first?. And I was like not yet, not yet. They was like okay, and then my life started. And so, in 2019, I was like, okay, I hear you. And that was the birth of readings place where I fully sat in my truth and become the spiritualist that I am. And I started to do my work. So in a nutshell, that's how it started.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 03:59
Nice. Nice. Nice. And then I'll, once second Bukky. So and then that’s we met at the same time, December 2019. I was going to and I mentioned this, I feel like I gave the full story, if not, I'll give an abbreviated version. My sister-in-law was selling, she sells like raw foods every now and again and she was selling some food at an event in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, and so I went and I saw this table, and I forgot what your sign said, Simone, maybe it said Readings by Simone and I was like, All right, I didn't have a burning question, I had to think about what I even wanted to ask, and I was like, maybe work. And then I spoke to Simone and Simone, it was funny in hindsight because I felt like I mean I'm sure she has a gift. I think she's often what she said to me. So, but it turned out that every single thing that she said was accurate. Bukky, Biden shared this part with you. It was she was saying that I was going to get a promotion, I had already known that I was going to get a promotion, she said that there would be a man who would really be rooting for me. And at the time the department chair wasn't even a man, I was in academia wasn't even a man at the time. But he really did root for me for the for the time in which I was, you know, in leadership there. But she said, I wouldn't last a year. And I was like, why would I be in this? Because I don't, why would I not last a year here? So, I'm like, yeah, she's cool. And all but you know, what I thought afterwards, a year, a year later, I was like, Oh, my God. She was on point with everything, right. And so, when I was looking for a house, I also wanted a little bit more insight, like, just because I was here, there and everywhere, I live in New York, and we're going to go to New Jersey, because the houses went a little bit cheaper and pop up by and we had a conversation. And I think actually, what really got me, Simone is that you were telling me that I had some vitamins that I needed. I'm like, Oh, my God, I really do. And then I started taking the vitamins, and then I've been better since right. And then you also told me when I was going to get the house, it was going to be the end of March, and I was you know, so long story short, when I came back, in my birthday of 2021, after I resigned from that position she had seen me resigning from, I was at a crossroads, like what's next? And so I spoke to Simone again. And here is really for me where my I guess I mean, my great grandmother, Granny Nora had showed up in a few readings before one or two readings before, but it was here that I was like I should, I really want to learn a little bit more how I do my own ancestral practice. And so that's when Simone has been instrumental for me. Bukky, are you going to say something?
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 06:46
Well, I mean, I think we just want to take a pause and just marinate on just like y’all’s connection. Simone, what was that like when you hear her talk about that like that?
Simone Arthur: 06:53
Said that again? I'm sorry.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 06:54
I said what is it like when you heard Norissa kind of like recount her perspective?
Simone Arthur: 06:58
So, I remember that first time I met her, she was the only person who came to see me on that day, was a holiday pop up shop. And everybody, you know, had all these customers coming in and buying from them and I was just sitting there like, oh, okay, and she was the only one. And, you know, it is still very humbling to hear stories like Norissa when the folks will repeat the conversations that we will have. And they will say this happened as she said that happen. And she said, like it will be unfolding in the middle of it, and then we'll get a phone call. This is unfolding right now, just as you said it was and you know, this is years later I'm doing this, is still humbling, still humbling and I don't think I would ever get out of that space and I remember talking to my spiritual mother, and she was saying to me, she's like, Simone, you never lose that feeling of wow, actually, I can actually do this, and it still bores me to this day. I remember a time I had a reading with one lady and nothing I said she knew it was a disaster for me. Because she was like, I don't know what you're talking about, that makes no sense. Yeah, no, that never happened. Two weeks later, I got a text. She says everything. She got confirmation on everything I told her two weeks later. And I had to breathe a sigh of relief because I remember during that time, I was having an argument with spirit, not me talking about shit. Like, she doesn't know what I'm talking about spirits. Like, repeat what I tell you, do not embellish anything, say what I'm telling you. I am Simone, the human being is falling apart. But spiritually, I knew I had to follow orders. And that is one of the key lessons I have learned doing this work, you have to trust and when you don’t do those two things, you will run yourself into trouble on your spiritual journey. So, every now and again, I get those tests, they still test me the same, you know, my head is blown up with this work. They still run tests on me and say alright, okay, you passed.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 09:20
I just love the way you talk about your relationship with spirit. And I have so many questions that I just want to get into a second but one of my favorite things about what you said is like my love language with the ancestors, right? That's just so, I mean, like, I don't know if you caught that Norissa, that's so, I'm like I want a love language with the ancestors?
Simone Arthur: 09:42
We all do in our own way, it is similar to our intimate relationships or relationships with our children. You know, I'm not a mother, but I know if you have children, you have to love each of them a different way because not they're not all the same human beings. So whereas one may be touchy and feeling mummy, mummy, the other one be like yeah, you good?, good. All right. So with the ancestors now, you have to know, what is the relationship you're going to have with them? What is that going to look like? What do they need from you? What do you need from them? Right? And my ancestors, they're very territorial with me, right and we have conference calls, and I have to set aside time to talk to them. Sometimes I do have to kind of put my foot on their neck when things that I'm working on and I find they're a little bit all I'm like, okay, so what's going on here, because we had a discussion, this is what you wanted me to do in Europe. So I talk to them as if they're actually human beings, right, and that's the relationship I have with so you know, someone else relationship with them may be a little bit more emotional, maybe they're more attached to them a different way. You will have to create that energy with them. It’s no different as if you meet someone, and you guys started to date, you got to figure out how to love this person, this person got to figure out how to love you. But it comes naturally, because it is it's a connection, right. So, when I talk about the love language, that is what it is. And then to because these are spirits, you have to know how they're going to communicate. If they're going to communicate with you, you're hearing, you're seeing, you're smelling or tasting or you're feeling, which speaks to your gut feeling that intuitive energy that you get, that’s right. So, it is a process. For me, it wasn't a process, everything came down one time, I was hearing them, seeing them, everything, and that I had to learn to control because I will be out grocery shopping and they'll start talking and they would literally turn around to like, yeah, but I know that and then I had to remember there's nobody there, that everybody else could see so it would look like I'm crazy. So, it is a bonding of a relationship and it takes work and it may change over time, too, because my relationship with them have changed as I've gotten deeper into my spiritual work. Last year, I travelled to Nigeria, and I got the full hand of the back. I was initiated into by you know, I'm a priestess, that is another learning curve, because that relationship is something completely different sometimes with your relationship with your ancestors, because none of my ancestors were initiated, well, the ones that I know, into any African traditional Religion. So, there's that separation today and I have to manage. But yeah, that's right..
Dr. Norissa Williams: 12:51
Simone, did you come from a Christian background?
Simone Arthur: 12:53
Oh, yes. So
Dr. Norissa Williams: 12:55
So what was that like for you?
Simone Arthur: 12:57
When I was born in Barbados, and the island where I am right now, and the island is predominantly idle. So I was baptized in an American church, Christ, the King and my grandmother, she was, you know, top dog in the church. She was headed the mother's union, she was ushered, she was this, she was that, so it was expected that her grandchildren would you know, that who were the ones that were living on island would be part of that church. And so I was baptized there, and then growing up, we had to go to church every Sunday, my sister and I, my brother, that was neither here nor there. But you know, the politics of raising four children in America. And so then one day, we were watching TV, and my grandmother called my mother and my mother came and told us you guys have to go to confirmation class. So I was confirmed at church and, you know, eventually came over that become a certain easygoing structure. So yeah, my family is Anglican and that's how we were raised. I always wonder if my grandmother was alive, what would she think of the work that I'm doing? And although in the spiritual realm we have spastic, and she was like, I understand that you have to do what you have to do, but I still wonder, you're in that episode, you're seeing things in a different way. If she was here, what would you know, her reaction be not too sure if she would have embraced but you know, growing up, you would hear individuals like myself, we're no good, we are Obeah women, we do bad things to keep men, the negative breathwork. But that is something I just had to, that is one of the reasons why I did not tell my family that this is my gift, because I didn't want to hear all that in mind, but you got to sit in your shoe.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 14:52
What would you say to two people who are, so we actually had a recent conversation about so let's say someone's grew up in a Catholic church or even a non-denominational Christian church, and they're very new to wanting to, like explore ancestral practices, you were sharing something recently about in the Catholic Church that there are already semblances of ancestor reverence in the church.
Simone Arthur: 15:16
Of course, when they honor Mary during Holy Week, Mary's an ancestor, when you go into the Catholic Church there is a certain search shop section, I don't know what it's called, where they have the lights, and you can go and put a light for someone who's passed on. That's ancestral veneration, that's honoring your ancestors. When they talk about Jesus, Jesus didn't come back yet, but you still talk about him, you praise and you want to live a life that He has preached about, you're honoring him that's also ancestral. Well, we know the politics of this thing when it comes to people of colour, and our traditional way of honoring our spiritual and religious is always looked on the negative part. And we know why that and even some of black folks go along with that narrative, as I described, you know, as to why I kept my spiritual gifts secret and I don't get into those discussions anymore. I tell people who I am and that's it. I don't explain how my gift works, I don't try to justify what I'm doing, this is who I am. I can't tell you how I can do what I can do, it happens. But the sweetest part of this, that we all have our intuition that we can work, right, we all have that gut feeling when we know something, you're right, something is off, especially mothers, with their children. And then that even gets heightened after you give birth. You know, so we just have it at different levels. But if we utilize and become stronger and stronger, and then it makes our life so much easier, because the universe is giving us clues as to how we can move forward in our lives and do better. Let me tell you, some of the folks who work best with intuition you see them drug dealers, they do well with their intuition, because and criminals too, because and good what’s nice to say that, so they run their lots run out, they will tell you Yeah, my gut tells me don't go into this thing and go, I can't make money of it. And then next thing, you know, you turn around the policeman, you know, so that's just a bad example. But a good example, of wholly, when you trust your intuition, then you move with how well it works, right? And all of these religions, these Christian based religions, I should say, in some way, shape, or form, honor their ancestors, but just when it comes to anything, a pastor, you know, is tarnished. But we're working on correcting.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 18:04
That's good. What I said to my friend last night, I said it's a conversation of liberation, as far as I'm concerned, right. So, getting free and so it's about unlearning, right? So, if you've learned this, you have to unlearn that. And in this process of unlearning, comes this metamorphosis into who you want to be and what you do want to practice. Right. So, I think that that that I mean, and it's something that I say all the time, but I think it's about going back to, I say going back to the land, right? So going back to the culture, your own culture, your own, even if it's not your immediate culture, but what you knew, because a lot of us have that. And this is the conversation that we had the woman is Dominican and Puerto Rican, multicultural, really multiracial. And so for a few generations, because of colonization, because of the church and how the church is used in colonization. She's like what are our practices? I don't know about practices, right? So sometimes, and what I hear from your story, and what I see in my own journey is like, sometimes we might actually have to go back a few generations back to and then like a few maybe sevens
Simone Arthur: 19:10
Exactly, you have to go back and fetch it. Because all it is that when we moved from Africa, to the Western Hemisphere, right? And wherever they placed us, we adapted to our environment, and we did what we had to do to survive, right? So even if the fast started in Africa, came over to the Western Hemisphere, right? When you, it is practice in Cuba, and in Puerto Rico and in South America, of course, they made their relative changes, but it's all the same. I don't go back and forth, well, we do it this way with your wishes, we do it that way. I'm getting to that. We would adjustments were made to soothe the environment, and they continue because that's who we are. We're not one pot of just unseasoned meat, but it all could have seasoned in there and vegetables and carbohydrates, and make this beautiful pepper pot of black folks or people of color that we are, right. So, it is for her now, I'm sitting here, I don't know who this person is. But she has women on her mother's side, who were practicing be after church and used her one on one and I'm not going to go into a reading here, but it's coming. One of her paternal grandmother's or great grandmother was known to use herbs to heal the African American tradition as we'll do, right, so she needs to talk to some people I look back as she was sick, because she has things that happened to her too. And it just doesn’t make sense but it makes sense, because it's just ancestral memory kicking out. It happens to all of us, but we can't pinpoint it sometimes.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 21:10
You know, I can't wait to share this with her. Yeah. So yeah, that's, it's so rich. And I think it's important for us not to see at you know, because it living in a Eurocentric frame where, you know, it's easy to see them as opposing to see Christianity as opposing to ancestral practices. But really, my ancestors, I didn't have a Bible in years when my ancestors, a couple months ago was telling me to get a Bible, and I got a Bible, and I haven't done everything that they want me to do just yet. But the first thing that I opened to in the New Testament, it was, this one was this one, or this one was a Senate, this one, and I counted, it was like 15 generations, if that wasn't important, right then they wouldn't have started with all the generations and different things like that. So it's really not antithetical or opposite to Christian practices. It could be used in conjunction with
Simone Arthur: 22:03
Yes, of course, when I mentioned earlier the spiritual Baptist practice that was originated out of Trinidad and Tobago, they do both. They have the Christian piece and or the African piece, and they incorporated the Christianity into because they still read the Bible, they still believe in Jesus is coming back. But when you go in these churches, just African drumming, they're burning incense, they're ringing their bells. You know, they're chanting, there's something called adoption, which I'm not even doing now, because I haven't done in a long time. But where they're, some pay their eats, the women are dressed in a uniform and their heads are tight. There's a ritual called mourning where you're going to solution that the minimum is seven days, you don't eat drink, well, no, sorry, you eat you drink limited food you can't see because the mother, your spiritual mother, create these bands she covers your eyes with, you can't speak to people unless it’s your nurse or your spiritual mother, and its deep meditation. You ain’t taking your showers and brushing your teeth. You ain’t reading and watching TV, deep meditation. And when you go into those pieces, you come out a different person and it's okay because my ancestral altar is a Bible. My grandmother, she's like, this is what I want, oh, my god, she wants her Bible, and equally, so I buy a book, but it's there. And so I have to honour that I am not going to bring the fire to my grandmother that was not her practice and I'm not going to disrespect her like that. And that’s not up for discussion. So I understand still having that Christian energy there and I honour that too. Because let me tell you, you see the book of Psalms and the book of Proverbs, sometimes you recite certain verses that can move a spell, that could shift a ritual that could shift energy, don't sleep on Psalm 35, as somebody who wrote a little tidbit there. Right. And in some cases, Psalm 23 could be comforting, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I can fear no evil you are in the midst of your life turning upside down. But this middle structure is telling you will bear nothing that's in power, isn't it? So we can still use these things and there is nothing wrong with that.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 24:32
Bukky, you like you had a question starting?
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 24:34
I mean, some of them just been fascinated with so many things that you've been saying over the past few how long we've been talking to spirits are you referring to one spirit I used to before it's a multitude say more about like, Wait, who are you what you refer to when you say spirit?
Simone Arthur: 24:53
Well, I use spirit but you know, I walk with several different people. And there is two sexes. This is my spirit. At times, right, who is an energy that will decide to walk with me because for some reason we all have. And then there's my ancestors, right? Who would probably who show up for me, it's my grandmother, who is my mother's mother. Recently, this is pretty wild, I was doing a young misty and my paternal grandparents showed up during my misty. I was like, really Granny, and granddaddy, we can do this something right now but they were not happy with me, because I was not honoring them the way I was honouring my maternal grandmother. So you know, and in my reading, I would get messages from either my spirit guides, or my ancestors, who would give me information on the person. And don't, if you are so lucky, I think that may have happened with your ancestor will show, which even becomes more interesting. And sometimes your ancestor may show up, but you may not know that, because this is ancestors from way back when, but they're able to say certain things to you that of course, I would not have, but they will be able to guide you, and give you protection and advice on whatever you need. And then that interaction becomes very interesting. Because, you know, I've had situations where mothers and because I recognize too, that my work is connected a lot to women. So I have a lot of grandmothers and mothers showing up in the readings. And they'll come and they'll say what they have to say and then the reading is over and they're still there. So I'm like, okay, the reading is done, you have to go and some of them don't want to go. Because this is the first time, they had the opportunity to show up. Because traditionally, we are not traditionally we're not honoring them, as we should as black folks. So they want to come and hang out, they want to go shopping with me, they want to have drinks, they want to go to the beach, and I'm like, that's not gonna happen. You know, I have my own ritual cleansing rituals that I have to have them to move on until maybe the person books me in it. Right. So these, when I talk about spirit, that is what I'm talking about talking about my own personal spiritual guide, my own ancestors. And then, you know, if I'm working with someone, reading someone at the time there their people would show up.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 27:32
So Simone, let me just make sure I understand what you're saying. So when you use some spirit, spirit says, sometimes that's what your spiritual guide is saying, sometimes your ancestors are saying, but it's never what the person's ancestors say.
Simone Arthur: 27:49
If I'm reading them, say family. Yeah, their ancestors will show up. Right, right.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 27:56
So the Spirit, it can be any of the any of the..
Simone Arthur: 28:01
Yes.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 28:02
I have a question for you Bukky okay if you don't mind.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 28:07
Right now? like we do it away till after my other questions for Simone. So Simone the other thing you were saying, right? Because when you were talking earlier about, like, not being able to share with your family early, right, when you discover your gift, and having to keep that to yourself for a little bit. So how then, given the fact that in some ways like we just talked about, it's like you're in the closet, right with your..
Simone Arthur: 28:32
I say that, you know…
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 28:34
But was I was thinking, though, is like, and that's hard. It's like this piece around, like which part of yourself you can show all of those. What well, how then, part of what I'm thinking about is like, given how intentional I believe that one has to be in terms of cultivating and cultivating this gift. How then, and I mean, concretely, how then did you cultivate your ability to really tune in when you were in the closet?
Simone Arthur: 29:05
Well, the lucky thing for me is my family lives in Barbados and I live in New York. And you know, I have my own place so that made the process easier. And then when I come home, is only for vacation, is a short period of time. And you know, I'm hanging out, I'm having a good time, and I head back to New York. There was just this one time though, whereas when I mentioned the ritual of morning on the spiritual Baptists and you get these messages, that when you come out of that ritual, that there's things that you have to do. One of the things I had to do was to hold what the spiritual Baptists call is a Thanksgiving service. This is where you give an offering, a spiritual table and give an offering and people who come they take from the table; this is a spiritual table full of food of bread and vegetables and fruit and candles and a very spiritual table. Your spiritual mother prepares it with her signs. And you know, you do a blessing around it and to put it in layman's terms. So anyhow, it came up that I had to do this Thanksgiving, and I had to do it in Barbados and I had to do it on my mother's property. So I came to my mom and I said, so listen, I gotta do this service. Right? She was like, okay, so what does that mean? So, my mother is very, how things are going to look, that's who she is and she's a Gemini. So, I told her that we have to invite Archbishop Granville Williams, so she went up a little bit, she's like, oh, so the runs one of the well, he's passed on now, but at the time he run one of the biggest spiritual Baptist churches on the island, but he was respected, he was respected. So, although people didn't really care for his religion, they honored him because he carried himself as a distinguished man. So when I said that, and she was like, Okay, we could do this and so that part of it they kind of, they were okay with that, and, but the other part now of me reading, lighting candles, burning incense and doing bush baths and drinking bush, it gets really weird even now, sometimes but I had to , 2019 came and I had no choice but to be like, Okay, so this is what I do, you just take care of it and I didn't even discuss it with her. I came back to New York, I came back to Barbados last year and she didn't even know I was doing readings while I was there, she didn't know. And I came back to New York, I came back to Barbados, and you know, she needed help there so I just shifted my readings to Barbados, and I just thought, like, this is what it is, we never had a discussion about it, she just knows this is when I locked to me in a room, she can't come and knock on door, although she's done. And people get kicked off to that sometimes, because they get to see my personal life unless your mother, right? But I just I'm just living with it. When I look at it, I just say Okay, listen, this is what it is, if you want to ask me a question, ask me a question. But I just came up with it. I just live, you know, I can't compare that to someone who is gay and coming up but I mean, I understand that has deep discussions and all that. And it's similar, but it's not the same still. But I just live, you know, and sometimes I'm working on vacations, if you're going to ask me a dumb question, I may not respond. So I just, I just work with it. You know, she doesn't ask me too much about it, I guess because when she wants money from me, she gets it now. I feel like sometimes I'm a drug dealer child. She doesn't want to know, but the money is available.
Dr. Bukky: 33:04
Part of what your story.
Simone Arthur: 33:07
No, no, go ahead. No, I just, I'm just like, you should be a model. You don't agree? Norissa.?
Dr. Norissa: 33:14
Yes, yes.
Simone Arthur: 33:19
Are you sure no one has ever stopped you and asked you?
Dr. Bukky Kolawale : 33:23
Oh, people ask me all the time. I have, there was a period in my life where I was exploring whether I was going to go down that path but I don't have the patience for makeup and all the stuff that they do , is just literally it was a choice of like, are you gonna go to grad school, or you're gonna pursue modelling career and I was like, I'm gonna go to grad school , very much.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 33:44
I'm coming back to like this idea of like our liberation journey, part of what is like, what you're sharing Simone that I think is, really important for us, and certainly for our audience to beholding is the reactions people in our lives have when we choose our own liberation journey, right when we choose and so we're going to walk in our own path, we're going to radically remember, we're going to own our own ancestral practices, that not everybody in your life is going to be like high fiving people or somebody totally freaked out by that people are going to have and how and how are we going to manage it? What are you going to do about that? Do you stay in the closet? Do you find your ways in which you are going to like you notice, so I really appreciate you just being able to share that with us because given where you are in your own game, for you to be like, this isn't all peaches and like peaches and cream and like my family, you know, there's still some avoidance used to manage this right given anxiety about it. So I just appreciate it, you know, sharing around..
Simone Arthur: 34:53
It's not easy, and I have some clients who are in that position still, and I tell them listen, this is a process and you have to take it one step at a time. However, I have to also say, depending on your spiritual energy around you, sometimes they don't give you the time. I have some clients whose children are spiritually gifted, and they don't have a choice but to accept these children as the way they are, then, and they will book a session. I think one of those five or six years old, she did this. And she did this, what the hell am I dealing with? I'm like, a gifted child. So, these are the things you have to do as she's going through this situation. You know, I have another client, I had to come down to her ; she's like, I don't know about this. I said, we’ll, you don't know about your, your kid right now is having some medical issues and this is what you have to do. Because what happens to it starts to affect your physical. And I just happen to me to get sick and then I go to the doctor, yeah, you got headaches, you can't sleep, you can't do this, you lose the weight. And then what becomes a, this is where you and the rest of this part comes in where mental health and spirituality comes together, and that is where my work, let me know it’s to find a mental health person, who is also understanding of the spiritual aspects to work with this person. And there, they're very few of you have this understanding but we need more, because I got clients in Ohio, a few in New Jersey, I can connect you with that command, because this whole license thing. And you can practice across, you know, I know you've gone into something else faster, what you asked, but that is where this piece is. It’s because for somebody like myself to where I had to battle, all of that, where Spirit doesn’t have patience, like we need you to be doing this. You need to be doing the work and if you don't, that could become a mental health situation and you could end up locked away. So that is why you know we're going to talk about this, but the retreat that I hosted in Barbados sacred conversations with our ancestors, we actually have a sitdown session talking about mental health and spirituality. And this is where I work with Ethan Pennel, who's a licensed mental health therapist and also a leukemia priestess who understands both worlds and help folks to identify certain things that they may be going through mentally which could be a spiritual situation, so yeah.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 37:53
Simone, I'm hearing also in hearing about your liberation process, your journey, ritual, and ritual is something I'm also recently being drawn to and to learn more about. I've been reading Swamis book on ritual, so I hear ritual, and I'm thinking of it in hearing you speak as a mechanism of liberation, as a mechanism of coming back into one's own culture and different things like that. What role has ritual played for you, if we're looking at this through the lens of liberation, what role has ritual played for you in this like reclamation of self?
Simone Arthur: 38:29
Oh, huge. I can survive as a spiritualist without joining marriage. And so, there that's another thing too, because some people are taught rituals for me to vary teaches me. So I would sit down or I'll be somewhere and they'll say, Okay, so the next time you need to do X, Y, and Z, or XYZ is happening. I'm in the Caribbean, there you're gonna see all kinds of things flying around. It's crazy with these bugs, but Spirit teaches me how to do my own rituals. If I have to take a box spirit would tell me Okay, Simone, you need to take this back. Now, at this time, we want you to do this, this, this, this, this, this or get these herbs to do it. This needs to happen. We need you to set down your light, put down your markings on wherever I'm going to lay down for the rest of the nativities, spirit spread teaches me my own ritual. Others have to be taught which Norissa I prefer because, you're in this space of spirit teaching you to do ritual. Is this going to be the reckoning? Am I not going to hurt myself? And you don't because it's very, it's teaching you what you need to do, do you understand? I remember a time I was mandated to do these set of rituals, and I had to do them over a period of maybe four weekends, and I utilized a former friend of mine I'm her basement, and I'm doing these rituals. And I was like, oh, shoot, she said, what happens is when I'm doing these things I'm supposed to face east, if we in facing after all that time, that means we got to do this, right? Because obviously, we're in a basement a dark, you can tell, like from me. So she pulls out her phone. And I'm not even not focused on that. If it is, we got to do it over, we just got it. She pulls out her phone and pull up the Compass app and she's like, I was like what happened? She's like, you have a basic piece of this. Listen, the tears were in the back of my mind. Because I'm tearing them down too because I don't know where this is coming from. But wherever it's coming from is a safe space., I can't explain it to you, but it makes sense to me and they prove it to me over and over and over again. See when we got, when that I will never forget that because I was like, that means I was strictly moving like spirit. I had positioned myself in a way and I was just moving by the spirit. And then it was like, oh, no, I forgot, you didn't forget Simone, you are in its and because you are being obedient or you are trusting your way even though sometimes, I still keep going. Because I have to do that trucks are where she says she was able she sat down like I can't believe this is happening. And she's like you were facing east all the time. And I got confirmation on what that was because I met a Haitian man. And he was telling me, he got locked up. And he had to call on spirits to come and get him out. And he said he took his life and the other night he said he faced this, anytime you're doing work, you got bases, that was confirmation. And then later on I learned this spirit when the Muslims pray, where do they face? East, because we're more alike than we are.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 42:01
So true, trust is like an important part. Yeah, similarly, I was, one of my ancestors was telling me they'd give me ingredients for a bath, and so of the things that we've talked about prior Simone, and I do want you to also mention your course. I haven't been I haven't jumped on the floor washes and the baths and I've known like they've been saying to me ritual, ritual, do it through the floor wash. Washington's gave me all the ingredients, and two of the ingredients. I was like, what is that like that? And they also Well, one of them seems like odd and the other one was an amaryllis flower, and I couldn't find Amaryllis dried anywhere I couldn't find and then I went out my back door to go for a morning walk and my mom had planted a flag up a plant pot and it had only been growing up green leaves, but that the day after the day, something like that. It was an amaryllis, a yellow Amaryllis flower. And, of course, I didn't act on it. And so, I was like, well, where am I going to find this? I'm a realist like now, right? And I was feeling the urging again, this week, the flower that was dead, had one I'm a realist, like bloom on it and I plugged it in, I made my bath earlier this week, this one and again, I was walking out the flower that was dead, another bloom from it again, too. But it's, I say that to really confirm and affirm and stand with you and also saying like, it's such an act of faith and trust, and you get the guidance, if you are attuned to it.
Simone Arthur: 43:33
Yes, and some people will be like, how do you get there? Like, that doesn't happen to me, something happens to you. You just have not recognized it yet or pinpointed yet, and that is okay, give yourself time and give yourself grace. Everyone has a different their hurt, right. And sometimes your ancestors show up for you sometimes access to be quiet people, you know, depending on where you work, they will come in, fix something for you, and you will wonder like how did this I was trying to figure this out? What am I going to do for the longest time and it just happened? That's that. That's them showing up. So, we might be getting all these messages like saw someone else and they have that too. At some point somebody is like, I don't hear, I don't feel maybe that's not where you are with them yet. Maybe they're showing up for you in other ways. When you went into the mortgage and the mortgage people told you no the first time, but say come back in six months, do this and come back in six months, you want to do what you have to do and come back in six months, that door was open, right? And so, they start to just clear up things for you. Notice that the Christians will say God, that's okay, that’s him too. But just recognize this show up to you in different ways, when you are intentional with the way you move around in your life and the way you speak to yourself, speak to the goals and dreams that you have, they will show up and do what they have to do. I have one person she said to me, Simone, I haven't done jack from my ancestors in a long, but this loan that was given me a headache all of a sudden, spirits came through. So that said, while you and your maze or haze, this, they haven't stopped working, because all they have to do is to focus on the children that they left and to see them. And we are spiritually, strongly believing if people of colour go back to who they are, go back to the earth, go back to the elements, we will not be having all some of these struggles that we're having now. We wouldn't. But that's another...
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 45:45
Simone some of the things you just said is just so as powerful. That their focus is on the children that they've left. And when you teared up a few minutes ago, when you just talked about that sense of like this piece of feeling so like gotten, like they have your back, like they like you, they are with you. It reminds me of the thing that I think when Cynthia was on our show, we took on notice of what she also talked about, like walking in like feeling
Simone Arthur: 46:16
like the arms.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 46:23
Right, and, you know, I'm the most political novice inexperienced like, I'm just new to this in a way that you and Norissa are obviously not. One of the things I'm curious about are smokers. The thing you kept on saying is this piece around my paying attention and listening. And I think people, when people are like, more expert in things, like you say people who are like you're like what, like, what does that mean? What is that? , So can you say when you say for example, you're not there yet. But when people are saying they want to start to listen, listen to I think you said in beginning was listening to intuition, what does that mean? What does that like? What exactly if you're being really concrete or for folks? What does it look like to start to listen? Like what like, is it about like, is it about meditating? Like he saying more about like, tuning people's ability people want to develop their capacity, the ability to listen, right? What is what is
Simone Arthur: 47:17
Well, let me start let me just say, let me put it as simplistic as poss. You are, you meet somebody, and the person is all nice, fine, and then something happened and this feeling comes over you like this making sense. Or your gut feeling is telling you red flag rollout, but we don't trust that so we go deeper down the rabbit hole. You're on the job, and you just get a feeling you see a promotion or a job, something that you qualify for and you get this something just telling you to apply. Now let me say something, if you would apply, and let's say you don't get a job, that's okay too. Because what spirit is trying to tell you it's time for you to roll out of here. It's time for you to move up. So, it's saying to you and you may have gotten the interview you could have been shortlisted but you didn't get it, but you were this close. So, spirit is saying the next one you see you get that same feeling. That is them, that is what you trust, that's what you feel and it would position you in a nice spaces to make solid and good decisions about your life. That is them talking to you through the feeling, the gut intuition that, little competition in your heart, that butterfly feeling alarms. Alarms went off he told me my feelings for love. That is nonsense. Yeah, that's a red flag. That's another conversation. Yeah.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 49:07
What if you don't get, what did people say like I never get that. If somebody says, I never get that, what would you say to that?
Simone Arthur: 49:14
You know, you'll get something you just have not tuned into it because some people look for this thing and when we have plans, I can't hear us, this guy here is you know what, you can't hear them because they're not talking to you like that. They may be talking to you and the numbers that keeps showing up 333444555222. They may be talking to you and you've seen a particular animal showing up all the time, look and see what that animal needs. A Dragon flight comes around, it could be your grandmother showing up as a dragon when something happens, something keeps repeating itself all the time. Pay attention, you have to pay attention that is us becoming in tune. We have so distanced ourselves from ourselves. You have to relearn that all learning together, that's when you, that's when that work starts forming here, you becoming tuned within here, you will know what it is, if you're telling me you don't know, that means you've got some work to do. There’re some blockages that don't come telling me if somebody do some sort of work on you, nah.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 50:17
I think Simone too, I think it's also in the practice, so the first time you do it, and I think some meditation and you know, so you can find out many of the other noises. So, you can be able to, distinguish between yours, your voice and another voice. But also journaling because we forget so much, so journaling so that you can go back to, for example, I didn't realize until a year after my daughter was born that I had a dream. Just before she got, before I got pregnant, somebody was dropping seeds from the sky and I kept saying, oh, my God, oh my god, I can't believe you're entrusting me with this. This is so I can't believe it. I'm so honored to carry this. I'm so honored to carry it. And when I looked it up, it was talking about pregnancy and new birth, right. So, in my journaling, I was like, there's going to be a new professional project come in, I'm ready for it, because in my head, I was like, she's not having no more babies. But it was a year later that I realized that I had, after she was she was a month old and I was like, Oh my God. So when you so you are, and if you go back more regularly, not a whole year, if you go back more regularly, you'll see oh, this meant that, actually, when I was buying this house, I had a dream with a snake with two heads that was just running after me. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. I don't know what that's about. I mean, it sounds like deception, but I don't know. Coming to find out the mortgage lender was like trying to like rob me of like, $30,000, it was crazy and I still didn't put it together until afterwards I was like, oh, my God, that dream about this may have happened right before but by so you are you know, it's like you are getting if you're, you know, and I say the meditation and the journaling, because their moment there's things to ground you and touch points that you can reference back. And then you and then because you have listened you get more adept at the signs. You know what I mean?
That really, because I think, I think that's part of the thing that like, I think this piece of what you said of the vet one value of meditation is about helping you distinguish your voice versus their voice increase your ability to, so I just I love, I love concrete, things like that, because then it allows people to be like, Oh, yes, like that, you know, So thank you for, for sharing that. You said earlier, Norissa that that you had a question for me? What was that?
Dr. Norissa Williams: 52:34
I’m gonna save that for the next episode. Oh, okay. So listeners, and Simone we will let you hear this after my next question for Bukky would have been, you know, because this has been an amazing journey for all of us, as we continue to think about, well, what is liberation? What does that look like in our life? And so having heard me talk about Simone, and you know, I was also kind of pushing it and Bukky was also kind of curious, but Bukky had the opportunity to speak to Simone, and it was actually Bukky’s idea, let's bring someone back on the show or whatever. And so, I just want to hear in the next episode, how has that because then our next episode is wrap up of season one, I just want to hear where you are in your liberation journey, how that might have done anything for you with respect to all of this. So, one last thing, Simone, in a sentence or three, what would you say to our listeners about liberation, because I also know that you're deeply passionate and passioned about black liberation and I will also, because a lot of this also applies to many colonized peoples, but what would you say about liberation, I mean, you could relate it to anything we've talked about or anything that's in your heart,
Simone Arthur: 53:48
The liberation for me is becoming more in tune with self and that takes on many different things. What has worked for me was really sitting in my truth and being focused on my spiritual work when you find your purpose and meaning in life that makes your journey, whatever journey that you're on, emotional freedom, mental freedom, financial freedom, it makes that process easier, where you are in tuned with you, when you set up your boundaries. You see that b word, boundary is very important, because people know what they can and cannot do. And you stand in that truth of who you are, regardless of what the other world has to say to you, that invites the energy and the pathway for true liberation. I won't get into religion and get into spiritual practices, although to do that is a spiritual movement, but standing your true sits with whom you are and the you want to be. And that is true liberation.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 54:56
Love it love it, love it and I agree wholeheartedly. It ties in so much have even a bouquet when I'm thinking about our first episode and when we're talking about authenticity and different things like that in ties in so much of what we've said. So, thank you so much, Simone. Oh, one last word I want you to share how can people hear more about you?
Simone Arthur: 55:16
Yes, I have a website it’s readingsbysimone.com. I'm also on tiktok, which is very addictive, Twitter, Instagram and clubhouse under readings by Simone or Simone Arthur, you'll find. I have a course called spirituality or your ancestors, it runs for seven weeks, where we talk about how you assess your veneration, and how you can use different spiritual practices to help with that. And I also have a retreat called Sacred Conversations with our Ancestors, which is held in Barbados. We will have it in May of 2023, the first weekend in May and that is where you come on the island for four days. Just focus on everything especially veneration authorism them paying tribute to them. And yeah, so that's where you can play thank you so much. I hope you bring me back again.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 56:11
Thank you Thank, you would definitely bring you back again, thanks for sharing all your wisdom. I don't know if you had any closing words Mookie.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 56:19
I’m just grateful Simone just for having time with you. And like Norissa said, just sharing your wisdom with us and with our audience. We really appreciate it, you keep doing the work you do all we love you and we appreciate
Simone Arthur: 56:32
I appreciate you too. And I'm here anytime. You know, this is going to be bigger that you guys anticipate. So I hope you guys are ready for the ride, because this is our change changing.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 56:51
Thank you. Thanks for listening.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 56:53
If you love what we have to say, please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 56:57
I’m Dr. Norissa and you can find me on IG at Dr. Norissa Williams.
Dr. Bukky Kolawale: 57:01
And I'm Dr. Bukky, you can find me on IG at the official Dr. Bukky.
Dr. Norissa Williams: 57:05
You can also stay abreast of our latest offerings at our website radicalremembering.com
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