In this episode of Radical Remembering, we discuss what it takes to find liberation from societal standards of beauty in the Black communities. I’m joined by Anika Tillery, Founder of Our Writing on the Wall to share her story of growing up being teased for her darker complexion and doing the work in adulthood to embrace herself unapologetically.
You’ll gain a deeper understanding of the personal toll that colorism can take and how
resilience, self-love, and community support are essential in navigating these challenges.
Listen to Radical Remembering: Season 2 Episode 1 and find inspiration on your journey towards liberation!
Or watch the full episode on my YouTube channel.
Relevant Links
Radical Remembering Podcast
Website: https://radicalremembering.com/
Connect with anika Tillery
Our Writing On the Wall: https://www.ourwritingsonthewall.org/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ourwritingsotwall/
Connect with Dr. Norissa
Living Liberated app: https://livingliberated.passion.io
Radical Remembering is a podcast that covers personal growth, self-awareness and awareness of topics at the intersection of mental health, spirituality and self-help. Each episode will leave you with intimate knowledge of the liberation process, sprinkle a little healing magic, and leave you with wisdom for your journey into living out your purpose. Stay tuned for the next episode. Thank you for listening to the Radical Remembering podcast! Listen to our next podcast and tell a friend about us.
TRANSCRIPT
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Welcome to Radical Remembering with psychologist Dr. Norissa Williams. This is a weekly conversation where we explore ways we've internalized oppression and consider what it really means to live liberated. Each episode would leave you with intimate knowledge of the liberation process, sprinkle a little healing magic, and leave you with wisdom for your journey. As you get settled in for today's episode, please make sure to like and subscribe. And if you've liked what you heard at the end, please share.
Hey, Anika. So welcome to Radical Remembering. We have with us a guest, Anika Tillery. I have known Anika for the last, I wanna say, 7 years, 8 years. And Yeah.
Yeah. And Anika is just all around, dope, just your perspective about life, your perspective about blackness, your blackness in particular. But what made me like, oh, I have to have one on the podcast next season was that at our live launch last year, we had you know, when we launched, we had, like you know, we invited people, and we did, like we watched an episode together, and then we discussed it. Anika raised her hand. And, you know, you thought it was gonna be a regular, regular audience contribution question, whatever.
But I had chills when you spoke, and I think the audience had chills. And it was almost a standing ovation when you spoke. So I was like, Darissa, I need to hear Anika her perspectives, her convictions about blackness, her own liberation journey, and what have you. So welcome, Anika. Thank you so much, Norissa.
I'm super excited to be here with you and honored to be here with you today. Thank you. And nervous. No need to be nervous. No need to be nervous.
So first, tell us a little bit about who you are. I know you have a nonprofit. Tell us about that. K. Well, excitedly, I have a nonprofit.
It's called Our Writing on the Wall, and our mission is to empower survivors of sexual violence and intimate partner violence to own their truth and to really take ownership in the telling of their healing story so that they can own back their voice, own back the control, and help to empower other survivors. We also work to educate adolescents on healthy relationships, healthy behaviors, and also help the community to understand how they also play a role in providing the healing space that, you know, through compassion, through connection, and through support, we can heal as a society versus still stigmatizing survivors. So I'm super excited for that work. We have a number of events coming up that I'll definitely share with you throughout. Good.
Good. Good. Okay. So we'll be talking about that throughout. I wanna know, do you remember any of what you were sharing with us on the okay.
So Absolutely. Let's get there. Let's have your liberation because if I remember correctly, you were talking about how darker-complected black women are treated differently, and what has your journey been in your self love and accepting the beautiful skin that you're in. So if you could pick up from there. Thank you, Norissa.
So it has been quite a journey, and I think it is so interesting. So as a child, I was teased, oh, gosh, relentlessly. I mean, I used to have peers stand outside of a classroom door and scream out black and crispy, burnt. You know, like, just really obscene, ignorant things. And so from very young, I felt ugly.
You know? I remember writing poetry and asking God, like, why would you put me in the skin if you knew that my life would be difficult, would be challenging because of this skin. And so growing up just feeling not enough. And I think just even watching television, I always saw the darkest skinned black women. They were the loud, ghetto friend.
Right? If they got on screen. Right? If they even got on screen. Right?
Right? And so if we made our way there, we were not in a position of class or a position of power. It was always in the negative. And so I think for me, it was about the age of 18. At 18 years old, I remember going to the barbershop, and I completely cut off all of my hair.
Put it into a ceaser. And I remember putting books on the mirror to block it and just just let them cut. And when he moved the books away, I had no hair. I had nothing to hide behind because for much of my late teens, and I guess mid teens, late teens, I felt like, okay. Well, I'm dark skinned, but maybe I could detract people's eyes from that if I wore my hair long and straight.
Right? Like, really buying into the Eurocentric standard of beauty. But at 18, I just felt like no more. I just felt so trapped. And so cutting off my hair, I remember, for the first time in my life, saying, wow.
I'm beautiful. Right? And feeling that from the inside and the outside and feeling free from here. You know? Like, just feeling free from hiding behind my hair.
Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. 18 seems so in a world where I know I got a few years on you, so I'm not sure where 18 fell for you.
Was it still the era where there were a bunch of videos with only light skinned women? Absolutely. Okay. So in a time where lighter skin was celebrated I mean, not to say that there is not still the unconscious bias happening where people where colorism and texturism is still happening. But the way that it was memorialized then on screen, at least well, maybe I don't watch videos anymore.
And actually, I can't tell you the last time I watched videos. But in that time, in, you know, where we were like, I could think that it's so hard at 18 to be able to be, like, bump all that. So what contributed to that? Like, how were you able to make that decision? Or Yeah.
You know what? I honestly, at that age, just drawing closer to God and finding my finding and kinda settling and receiving my identity in him and realizing that it wasn't like, no one held the power, whether, people in my own community, whether white people. Like, no one held the power over who I am as an individual and even what I look like. And so embracing my identity in Christ really catapulted my liberation journey. Spirituality.
Right? And then it sounds like, getting centered, getting connected to, like, your source that has such a wealth. And now how is that related? Because it's not always related to your blackness. Right?
So how did Christianity help you or your spirituality help you specifically related to your blackness? Was like, was your church talking about it? Like No. I'm you know, honestly, like I said earlier, I write poetry. And, I remember just sitting down one day, and I was just like, I just need to get my thoughts out.
And I wrote a poem to my father who is Jamaican, and my mom is from the south. And my father is very dark skinned, and his mom is very light skinned. And when she was pregnant with him, my grandfather was also dark. And so when she was pregnant with my father, her family made her live in the crawl space of the house back in Jamaica, which, you know, wasn't safe. Right?
And so but talking to him and and we don't have a relationship. He wasn't in my life. But those pockets of experiences that I did have with him, I remember sitting down and him telling me that he would sit in the sun to become darker because darkness was beauty. Right? Mhmm.
And this is a dream that God gave me from a man that wasn't even really in my life. And I remember sitting there, like, I never got much from him, but in that space, I received a gift from him that I felt like God really gave me to embrace, that what I look like was so much attributed to my father's genes. Mhmm. Mhmm. I love that.
And I'm also thinking you know, I always think about individuals embedded in social context. Right? So I'm also thinking about what if he I mean, even if in woman, if in utero, he was getting the message socially that he was undesirable because he was dark skinned, then what about him? But I also do know that Jamaicans are maroons and and not not all maroons, but there is a rebellious core to texture, you know, historically, that would also contribute to that even in the presence of texturism and Absolutely. That's happening.
But I'm also thinking of Bob Marley and, like, the social consciousness of that era. And then also I mean, I'm sure he has individual traits that, you know, contribute to this too, but also how those things are important for social movements and how we're internalizing and understanding our blackness. I'm grateful I'm grateful that he was able to if that's the one gift he could give you, that that was gonna be you know? And so at 18, still too because it's still countercultural still for you to be like, oh, you know, you cut your hair. Right?
I am not my hair. Right? But you were still able to see it as beautiful. There were some people who would cut their hair and still be like, damn, I'm so ugly. Right?
Mhmm. You saw And so could you speak to that? I saw beauty. And so funny enough, I was in college, and I went to a PWI, predominantly white institution in Western PA. And so there were probably 4% black students on my campus, and I did not look like any of the other women on campus.
And so not only was it against the social norm back in my community back in Brooklyn, but it totally was out of the social and cultural norm back on my college campus. And so I really did not fit in in so many spaces at that age, 18, 19. And still, as you said, and as I said, I saw a beauty because it felt like who's who said it in his lyrics? Like, the, oh, Tupac, the darker the berry. Right?
You're closer to earth. Right? The the they're closer to earth than you are. And so it was funny for me. It was physical on my face, I saw beauty.
On my face, I saw melanin. On my face, I saw the beauty of the midnight sky. But it's funny enough. Physically, I still felt unattractive. Physically, I was always very slim.
This is my I'm, like, slim thick now is what I like to say. It's the thickest I've ever been in my life. I'm slim thick. Mhmm. But at that age, I was still made fun of for being too slim.
And so I remember I had an ex boyfriend say to me that I had the perfect white girl body. Yeah. And, I remember feeling like, what like, what does that mean? You know? Because I wasn't a white girl.
I was a black woman. Right? And he said to me he was like, but it's a compliment. It's a compliment. He was a black man.
It's a compliment. It just means that you're slim with the right curves, but you, you know, you don't have, like, all the curves of a black woman because you're more skinny. You're skinnier like a white woman. And it's just craziness. Right?
And so I remember feeling like, dang. Not only did I now have to come to this place of acceptance of my skin, but now this is going to be its own journey of being okay with my body because I did not fit the quote, unquote, look of a black woman. I did not have a bust. I did not have a hip, you know, a child wearing hips. Right?
I did not have this behind that we've been conditioned to believe that that's what a black woman is supposed to look like. Right? And we go into that, which is why we see so many women of color dying from trying to create that body. And so even that became his journey of accepting myself physically and saying, like, this is me 100% and who God has created me to be. And I'm either going to live in celebration of it or I'm going to die resenting it.
And then die if I die in resenting it, then I'm never going to fulfill the purpose that he has in me. And so that became of greater importance rather than believing what the world said I should look like. Yeah. Say that again. Live in celebration of it.
Yeah. What's the last part that you said? Live in celeb oh, die to live in celebration of it or die trying to, you know, being angry about it, rejecting it. Right? I I think the rejection of ourselves is what keeps so many of us in that in bondage.
Right? The everyday of having to walk out and feel like I'm just not enough. And it can impact it. It did impact that relationship because, like, even, like, girlfriends going out with them, if I felt like the ugly duckling, then I wasn't I. I didn't have fun. If I felt like, you know, the people on the board were looking at me as if I had my fist in the air, then am I showing up as my authentic self? And I had to realize, listen.
Whether you see a fist in the air or you or you don't, like, I'm I'm showing up as Anika in her full beauty inside and out. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. 1, what I was thinking too is that we have not liked so much in our culture, it was necessary for our survival for us to think about our blackness.
It is less and later that we think about how gender also influences our experience. Not gonna lie to you, white women taught me about feminism. Like, when I used to teach, I used to teach a cross cultural class. And when I taught this class when I was at Medgar Evers College, which was predominantly I mean, it was very, very small sprinkling of white students, but so it's predominantly black. When we talked about racism, like, gender didn't come up.
Right? And I had as much thought of myself in a gendered way because, because like I said, it wasn't necessary for my survival. If you enjoy listening to Radical Remembering and would love to get the season dropped before everyone else, if you want exclusive invites to live and virtual events and could benefit from daily liberation inspiration, like affirmations, thought provoking questions, and daily guidance, then download our free app, Living Liberated, in the App Store or on Google Play. You can also find the link below in the description box. But then when I was teaching at NYU, cross cultural counseling, the white woman brought it up all the time.
And, you know, that was where I had a student, she was so funny. She was like, that's that she's a Dominican student, she is an Afro Dominican student. She's like, that's their one issue. That's their one issue. And so but anyway, in hearing them, and I'm like, oh, you know, the beginning I had now the luxury of thinking, and I'm calling it a luxury because, like, yeah.
Okay. I first thought too if blackness wasn't so hated against, you know, in America and globally. And so I began to think about the impacts of that, yet and still I was left defenseless for years because we weren't socialized to to name Right. That it was oppressive and that that had an impact on how you're judging your body, whether or not it's appealing, whether or not it's curvy enough, whether or not you can attract or any of those things by the standards of patriarchy, right? Right.
Because of sexism, stuff like that. So that's an important part, and I like that you've named it too because it really speaks to the fact that liberation is not a one and done. Like, we need to go Oh. Yeah. Each of the buckets, each of the wells to be Yes.
Where have I internalized these harmful thoughts about who I am and my identities and also the identities of other other people in relation to me too. I I was speaking last week or week 2 weeks ago. Right? So this woman, I don't like to share people's names in case it's not business they wanna share. Right?
But this woman shared this really, really beautiful activity that she did to learn to love herself. Right? Because, again, living in a world where you're told that you're not attractive. And what she used to do was stand in the mirror. Right?
Because I had said yeah. I should because I was gonna ask you about your practices. So I had shared that I I I did a mirror, and I got it from Louise Hay's book, Mirror Work. Right? And I and and looking in the mirror and saying, I love you.
I really, really love you. And it was in that work that I realized that I only look in the mirror for function. Like, alright. Do I look for some exit in the door? Let me put this makeup on real quick.
And then I go. I don't I don't I don't look at myself for your value of looking at myself. And so in that activity, I love you. I really, really love you. And doing that until something breaks and then doing it multiple times, that it was powerful.
And so we shared with her what she did, the version of it that she did, she would sit in the mirror, and she could only say things that were affirming and positive about herself. If she slipped up and said something negative, she had to start over. Right? It took, I believe, 61 or 62 days to get 30 minutes straight of only positive. Wow.
She kept having to start over because something negative came up because these are the internalized voices of others. Right? Wow. Super, super of others. Right?
Wow. Super, super powerful. Another one is, like, even sitting in the front of the mirror naked. Right? Because we're living, oh, we're living in a world where, like, oh, that's not looking at how that looks lumpy or that's not curvy or that's flat or whatever.
That's hard. It's really, really hard. So I'm curious because you said yes. I'm curious if you did that. Yeah.
All of that, all of that. 100%. One standing in the mirror, I have affirmations around the mirror. So I am enough. I am worthy.
I am beautiful, and just speaking life into myself. Also, taking the moment to stand in the mirror and recognize what I like about my face. And so looking at the mirror and saying, I like my eyes. I like my high cheekbone. I love my full lips.
Like, recognizing the things that were shamed so long ago, but some women are paying to have done today. Right? And I absolutely thought that standing in the mirror naked was part of my practice for a long time. Now I do it for fun. But I would get out of the shower.
I would get out of the shower, and I would just take off the towel, and I would just stand there. And I would stay in the mirror and just stare at myself from head to toe. And the first couple of times, no words. Just stood there staring at myself. I could not turn away.
I I I didn't allow myself to speak about anything that I saw. I just had to become comfortable with staring at myself completely naked. And then, times after that is when I would begin to kinda examine myself from head to toe, but not a negative examination. An examination of recognizing Anika. I think I think I rejected my body for so long that I was no longer connected to it.
Right? I didn't recognize my body. So standing there, I had to first recognize myself so that I could accept myself. And then that also came with noticing, okay. I have cellulite here, and I like it.
Right? You know? Like, I have a dimple here, and I like it. And then it went from standing there and observing to dancing in the mirror. And if that meant the belly jiggled a little, then I probably helped it to jiggle.
Right? But for me, it just became, this is my body. This is my body. I'm not going to have I'm not paying to have it changed. So Anika, embrace it, celebrate it, accept it, and know that this is you.
And so a lot of that work definitely was done in the mirror, like, just reflecting on reflecting, but also rejecting what society said. And also just setting myself free from the thoughts of I felt like if I could set my mind free from thinking that every black woman has a but, then I can help others, like, young black girls know that that is not correct. Right? That every black woman has a tiny waist. That is a lie.
Like, that is totally incorrect. Right? We come in different shapes, different sizes. There's such a beauty across black women, you know, that I just wanted to embrace it. And I I I really I really felt like if I didn't do the work when I have a daughter, how am I going to help her?
And so I made it my business to do the work so that I will be able to pour into her, not from a place of insecurity, but from a place of celebration. Yeah. I love that. You also said I don't wanna interrupt you, but you said something. It was profound, so help me fill in the blanks.
You begin to reject yourself. You disconnected from your body because you rejected it, and so the work was recognized. Can you say even if you have to sit, just say it again. Absolutely. So first, the work was just recognizing myself again. I think because I ran from myself for so long.
I didn't recognize myself. I didn't recognize what I look like because, like you said, you know, we get dressed. We look in the mirror for functionality. Okay? My clothes are in the right place, my hand in the right place.
I left. My body, I wasn't connected to it to recognize the like, I just the other day, I found a new mold on my hip. I'm 40 years old. I've never seen this mold. Right.
Well, where does mold come from? And so it was easy. Baby. Right. Where does this come from?
But how do I I I had to first recognize myself in order to receive it. Right? You know, I think it's like when you think about love, in order to really accept real love and true love, you have to first recognize what it is from a healthy lens versus the negative lens of trauma that you may have experienced in unhealthy love. Right? So how do I first recognize healthy, loving behavior so that I can be healthy in a relationship.
And so I had to first recognize Anika's body so that I could connect to my body and therefore disconnect my mind to my body and exist in celebration versus rejection. I love it. I love it. I love it. I'm thinking about self love and it is a journey.
And I'm I'm I was so from my first marriage to my second marriage, as you you know, you and I have talked about this, it was 8 years. I was single for 8 years. I mean, there was a lot going on too, 6 years, I was a single mama, but 6 years of that 8 years I was also working on a doctorate, so there was not a whole lot of available time anyhow. But after a while, I would say was it the 6th or the 7th year? I was and I had wanted a relationship because I'm a relationship kind of person.
I am Cancer. Relationships, domestication, matter much to me. Right? And maybe around 2-6 years into that 8th year period, I was like, man, whatever. First of all, I already have a child.
I'm good. You know what I mean? I am okay. And so what I then began was to, like, work on myself and love myself. And it's not that I was totally neglecting it altogether, but I was largely neglecting it and having everything to do with the fact that I was working full time on a and then on a doctorate, and then and mothering.
And so I was leaving little time for myself. So first, who was I gonna attract? 2nd, I needed to heal from the damage of the marriage and to repair the way I think of myself, but also to repair how I thought of myself based on earlier childhood experiences as well. And so I began to, like, write myself love letters and I like that. Yeah.
Think about the things that I did like about myself. You know, I probably didn't do full mirror exercises, but I would stop in the mirror. I saw a picture of myself in childhood on the wall, and because I had been so criticized and, you know, my sister was lighter skinned. Somehow, I was darker when I was younger, but I don't I don't know. I still don't look at it and think, oh, I was dark skinned.
But I was darker, and my sister was lighter skinned. There was commentary about that, so there were explicit statements about my skin complexion where I from extended family members, but there was implicit behavior too around skin complexion that I experienced. Right? And so I had a picture or and and I always thought that I was ugly as a child. Right?
Even the problem of having aunts and uncles that were still in their teens is that they like, my aunt, you know, god bless her, she used to make fun of me and say Yeah. I had so cool lips. And so and she said, she also used to my dear, this one was in my twenties. She was like, damn, your teeth are so big, you can't even close your mouth. Like, is she I know?
She used to say, why am I showing people this? I guess, because I don't care no more. One moment, I used to suck my thumb for comfort. I went through a lot. I needed comfort as a child, but I used to suck my thumb so I have an overbite.
So when I close my mouth, you see the, like, the little she was like, damn. Look at this right in your chin. You can't even close your mouth without a strain. Right? Thank you for what you've done for my self esteem.
And I also jokingly love her. But it didn't it didn't do well for my self esteem so I was ugly as a kid. And so I had but I put up this picture of myself on the wall. And so I passed it one day and I was like, oh, shoot. Like, I had a picture on the wall, but I never thought that this was a cute child.
You know, I could never see and then all of a sudden, I was like, this is such a cute picture. I was cute. Like, like, the conception never occurred to me. And even more so now that the picture is of me when I was 6, my daughter just turned 5. Can you imagine?
She just turned 5. Wow. But anyway, she may see some resemblances even when she saw the picture, she she was I I was like, who's that? She was like, it's me. I was like, actually, it's me.
Right? But now I can't look at her and but, you know, like anyway, the point of the story is that that picture also had to take it down off the wall and love it up, you know, and and Yes. Hug it up and different things like that. Long story short, healing work began to revolutionize what and who and how I was attracted to life. And I remember that some of it was just so random.
Like, I got a text from somebody that would have been my intern. I just want you to know that you're so strong and powerful and it wasn't, like, trying to get at me by email. This was the love I was giving myself was being brought back to me. Right? You know, you're so strong, and I've learned so much from you and blah blah blah.
Right? And so then another text I just wanted to say you're beautiful. Random people like this, you know and it wasn't like again, I'm making sure to accentuate. It wasn't like, let me try to get at you. It was real and so it revolutionized how the world was even relating to me.
And then, it was a year later that I met my husband. And so because of the work that I was doing. What I'm curious about when I hear your story, does it ever crop up? Like, you started young. You're over 20 years old.
Does it ever crop up for you? Absolutely. So I I am I'm single. I I I won't say on air how long I've been single, but I'm single. And so it's cropped up.
It's cropped up. It tries to kinda creep back in in the singlehood because, you know, sometimes the mind has to make it has to, like, make it make sense as to why you're single. Like, well, maybe I'm single because of this, or maybe I'm single because of that. So those are the moments that it tries to come back in. And then I have to stop, and I have to check myself, and I have to remind myself of how amazing I am.
Right? And I think, also, a lot of what you were saying resonated with me because in this singlehood, my singlehood wasn't wasted on waiting for a man. Right? It hasn't been wasted on waiting. Liberation is 100% about being in the right relationship with our power.
It's so easy from day to day to disconnect from our source and forget who we really are. On our app, Living Liberated, we have the tools to keep you plugged in. You'll find a library of affirmations, guided meditations, guided journeys, and tapping sequences to keep you in a state of alignment with who you really are. Topics range from self love, healthy relationships, activating our DNA, to guided journeys with your ancestors. Download our free app, Living Liberated, and start your free 7 day trial now in the app store or Google play. You can also find the link for plugged in in the description box below.
It hasn't been wasted in a state of despair, right, and sadness and loneliness. No. Like, in my singlehood, I I love what you said earlier. I went to those different buckets.
I had to go to the corners of my life and really deal with and dig up some inceptions of low self esteem and rejection of self and and abandonment issues. Right? I had to deal with all of that stuff because I recognized that that was impacting relationships. So it impacted who I attracted, and then it also impacted how I related in that relationship. Right?
So I I started doing that work in some self reflection and some healing and some therapy. I went to school. I got my master's in psychology, my master's in social work, my license as a social worker. I I started a business. I started my nonprofit.
Right? Like, I started to build up Anika, not in the space of I don't need a man. No. I would like one. Right?
Right. But in the space of Anika, like, you you are you have so many possibilities. Like, I I started only being a mom and only being a, like, a daughter or a sister or a friend or an employee. But I was like, what about Anika? Like, how are you feeding yourself?
How are you building yourself up mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally, financially? So I had to begin to build myself up in all of those areas so that when it does happen, when I am in, like, a relationship and feeling settled in it, I never wanted to be in a space of my husband saying, who hurt you? Right? Like Right. Like, I never wanted that.
I never wanted him to say that. And so that means that I had to do the work, and I and I wanted to feel good about myself. And that was also part of my liberation because where I grew up I grew up in East New York, Brooklyn, and, unfortunately, you know, it's a housing development, the projects, the hood. And, unfortunately, many people would say not much good can come out of those communities. Right?
So having to contend with systems in place that created it so that many of us didn't, quote, unquote, make it out, but I had to contend with I did make it out. And so in making it out, what am I going to do to make the best of that so that in any relationship, I'm not entering that relationship from a place of insecurity or a place of he's going to make me whole and complete and bring joy. No. I'm going to be whole. I'm going to be complete.
I'm going to know the source of my joy, and then we can build each other up in that. Right? And so all of it really does come from that place of freedom. Yeah. Yeah.
So I love it. And, you know, I was having a conversation this week too. Actually, it was yesterday, and I was talking to somebody. And I said I was like, in the communities I come from right? And so a lot of people might be like, what?
You work on Long Island. What are you talking about? Right? But let me tell you. Was intentionally impoverished the same way, some of the city and suburbs because it's a black neighborhood.
North Amityville, I should say. It was a black neighborhood, crack epidemic hit us, and different things like that. But I was sharing, like, that that language made it out of. That's like war language. I said Yes.
I made it out of. Like, I, you know, like, I got out the hood like that. Well, I'm naming it because layer upon layer upon layer. Right? So you named abandonment.
Right? So it's so I'm saying this because we're not only having to contend with personal traumas. We're having to contend with personal traumas, systemic traumas, even the ways in which it is well, interpersonal traumas because of people in our environment, how they become the arm of oppression, and they stand outside the classroom and say blackity, crispy black. You know what I mean? And all those kinds of things that we're not free to do, it would be a luxury to just be like, oh, I was abandoned, and I've had to work on that all my life.
Right? But it's like layer upon layer upon layer upon layer to just be able to be. Right? So right? Yeah.
To just be able to be. Yes? You gotta take a breath on that one. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So where are you now? Yeah.
Right? So you said that you're 40 now. Right? So where are you now in your liberation journey? 40.
2 weeks ago, I turned 40. Cannot believe it. He just got wet. Yeah. No.
Things just got real. My grandma said to me, how did it happen so quickly? Grandma, you tell me. I don't know. Right.
I think at this point, I feel, god, I feel good. Mhmm. I feel like I have worked so hard to become Anika, this version of myself. I've worked so hard to become the woman that I am today that I am not willing to compromise her for anyone or for anything. And so I think now at this point in my life, it's being okay with the goodbyes.
Right? You know? In your twenties, you don't you don't you try to hold on for dear life, like, for instance just because of time. But now it's a place of the freedom to say, if you don't want to be here, then bye. Right?
And and and that's it. Like, that's in romance. That's in friendship. If we cannot serve, I think servitude is such a huge part of a relationship. Right?
If we can't be of service to each other in the tangible but also in showing up for each other, then bye. I'm feeling more comfortable owning my voice and being able to speak up for myself, you know, growing up. And in my twenties and thirties, I could be the, like, the extreme end. I can either be or I can really, like, shut down. And for a long time, I didn't know I didn't know a medium.
And because I did not want to be, like, the loud ghetto girl, right, that stereotype, I oftentimes would treat it to myself because I just didn't want to turn other people off. But now I I've I've found that medium in in my life, the medium of being able to exist unapologetically, the medium of being able to speak up for myself, and and the medium of being able to say, like, this is this is what I want, and and this is what I've worked for, and this is what I deserve. And so funny enough, I was introduced to a guy a couple of months ago, and the conversation, like, the first conversation went amazing. Like, I was like, oh. Like, really?
Some really cool guy. And I I think it was only, like, 1 or 2 really serious questions, you know, in the sense of, like, what do you do? What's your passion? He asked that question. I answered that question, and then that was it.
We talked more about, you know, like, what do you like to do for fun and things of that nature. And then I never heard from him again. Right? And so he reached out and he said, you know, you're such an amazing woman. You're so this and you're so that.
I would love to continue the conversation tomorrow. Okay. Cool. I told a friend of mine that had introduced us, and then 2 weeks had gone by. And I I said to her, I 'm okay.
Like, what happened? And I showed her the thread, and she was like, that was a really good conversation. I said, I know. Like, what happened? And she was talking to him, and I did not send her to talk to him.
Like, at that point, I felt like he disqualified himself. Great. But she went to him, and he said to her, wow. She really knows what she wants. Mhmm.
And she's really direct, and so that's just too much for me right now. And 20 year old Anika would've felt like, oh, well, no. That's not what I meant. And, well, no. Let me be 40 year old Anika be like, you're you're darn right.
Right? Thank you. Thank you. You saved us time. You saved us time, and it's not in, like, a ball busting way.
Yeah. But it's in the way of us all being direct. If you ask me a question, I should be able to, with clarity and with conviction, speak. Right? And isn't that what we all deserve to be able to reach that point in our lives and to be comfortable enough?
And so if you can't exist in that space with me and also operate in that same way, then bye. Yeah. You know, it's funny. Years ago, I I went on a date with this guy. Right?
I mean, afterwards, I was like, first of all, you're not even straight, but and I'm not this is this is like, if I told you the date I mean, I'll tell you the date off air. But he was like, yeah. I don't like black women because they have too much self esteem. I was like, what the hell? Like, is there such a thing as too much self esteem?
Yeah. Y'all got too much self esteem. Like, I'm worth this. I know it might be worth it. I'm like, 1st and foremost.
Right? Maybe we've been in a system that has been so hard on us that we've had to think about it more so it's a part. It's enculturated more. You know what I mean? But either way, long story short, I was in and in the end, I was like, okay.
You're not you're you're not even straight. You don't even like women. What are we talking about right now? Like so Well, you know what? What's funny, Norissa?
So I actually had an opposite experience a couple years ago. I was in the Home Depot, and I had this when I had my locks in. So I had something similar to it, one side with shade, and I had my locks coming down to the other side. And this black man walked up to me, a stranger walked up to me. And he looked at me, and he said, I just wanted to apologize to you.
And so I'm looking at this man. I have no idea who he is. And I just looked at him. He said, I want to apologize. He said, I apologize for all of us.
He said, I apologize if we told you that your look was too much. I apologize if we told you that you were too much. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that we weren't strong enough to receive you exactly how you are. And then he walked away.
I never knew his name. He wasn't as you said earlier, he wasn't trying to get with me. He wasn't trying to spit games, but he said I I what I loved about it was he recognized what's been set up against black women. Right? From complexion to our hair, to our body, the rejection that we face in society from other cultures, but particularly in our own community, the rejection that we have faith.
And so he did. He just apologized for it, and I was amazed by it because for me, I felt like, wow. He's done some work on himself. Right? Yeah. To reject the norm and to be able to just come and say, I'm sorry.
Right. I'm wondering, like, how do you move on after that? Somebody comes and you 're like, wait. Wait. Wait.
Are you single? Like, I wasn't gonna say that part. But that's so beautiful. And it could only happen if you from you having done the work that you're telling us that you did. It could only happen because if you weren't a match for that, you would not have received that.
No. I would have been like, what do you mean? What's your sorry for? Right? It's just an attitude.
Attitude. Yep. Yeah. But to be in the place, just to my goodness. Like, I'm free.
You know? And I and, on my birthday, I remember just sitting actually in this chair, and I was just sitting here, and I was talking to god, and I was like, god, I I am I'm free. You know? I'm and so many areas of my life that were a place of bondage. Like, it did it it feels good.
It feels amazing to say I'm free from this idea of someone else's beauty. I'm free from this idea of how women are supposed to show up. I'm free from feeling like I have to soften my look to be acceptable to you. No. Anika walks up in every space with her head held high, with her signature red lipstick on.
You know, someone actually said to me, well, you know, you shouldn't wear red lipstick because it's just too powerful. You should wear blush. And you shouldn't wear your pants suits. You should wear a skirt. And you shouldn't wear your hair natural.
You should wear, like maybe you should straighten your hair. And black person? This was a Latinx female and a black man. Both were telling me how I should exist in the world. And that's depression.
Talk talk about it. And and and that's what I've I remember looking at them just feeling bad for them. Right? And so they're like, it's I. I hope you can evolve to the place of acceptance that what you're saying to me, if someone said to you, would roll off your shoulder. Like, I didn't even feel the need to defend it.
I just looked at them and said, okay. Well, I think someone even said to me, you sit too straight up in the chair. Maybe you should slouch. And all of it came from a place of you don't want to come off too powerful. Wow.
And I said, but Anika is powerful. Yeah. Anika is strong, and that's okay. That's okay. Right?
I'm single. That's okay. I'm free. And I think that's all I need. That's where that's where I need to exist.
I love it. Yeah. You know, I was telling another group recently that when you're loving yourself in this way, that everything else is gravy. Even your partner's love is gravy. Yes.
You know what I mean? So even I mean, do I want my husband to compliment me? Yeah. That feels good. Me.
What you're thinking? Okay. By the way, it feels good. But I have already determined those things about myself too. So I'm not looking for it.
Like Yes. I'm just missing it's not happening because my knees are so full already for what I'm doing. You know? But that's a different me than, you know, 20 years ago. Actually, 20 is funny, yeah.
2020 I the funny thing is, right, is that I did not have major social deficits, and so I didn't have consciousness or even think about those things. I didn't think about if my body was curvy, if I didn't think about any of those things until my late twenties. Some no. No. No.
It wasn't even my late twenties. I got all the way into my mid thirties and somebody I was dating I feel like I told you about this. Some somebody I was dating dumped me because he said it's just funny when you think when I think about it now. He said he said, well, he said I had a little kid body. He was not like he was, it's like I like you, and it's like I feel this intense warmth.
You know? Like, do you know? And I was like, do you love me? Like, where are we going? Right?
And then he was like, but I'm not sexually attracted to you in the least. Right? And so when Tag in the least? Exactly. And he had spoken to his mentor about it to see what he could do about it.
I was like, well, damn, Is that bad? Like, should you be that bad that you had to speak to somebody about it? Like the point of the story is I'm just laughing because it's only you who have up here laughing and telling all my story. But one of the stories, it was then in my early thirties. So that I even began to think, oh my god.
I don't have a body? I didn't even realize. Like, I never really assessed one way or the other. So yeah. I forgot where I was going with that because I, you know, laughed so much.
But yeah. But now, I was like, it won't affect me the same way. That's right. Yeah. So That's right.
Too funny, too funny. So you said you're working with adolescents too, and what are some of the ways you impart these messages? If so, how? Yes. So we are actually so funny enough, I actually have a workshop this week virtually and next week in person.
So it's a real talk with teens and adolescents on healthy behaviors and relationships and how to recognize those behaviors and relationships because February is actually teen dating violence awareness month. And so we're doing the work this month to work with them to help educate them and to help parents be educated. Right? I think if we so when we talk about teen dating violence, when we talk about intimate partner violence, when we talk about sexual violence, I think we really we we cannot ignore that the messaging that we would see from childhood. Right?
Remember being 6 years old, a little boy hit you. What was told to us? Oh, he dislikes you. Right? And so they would say the same thing.
Oh oh, what? Just that that's how she knows that you like her. And so we're taught from very young that violence is the way to demonstrate that you care about someone. So we have to go in and dig out those schemers. Right?
Like, we kinda re-informed them. And I think it's the same thing when we talk about sexual violence. So in April, April is sexual assault awareness month. We have an event that's being held in person in Queens. It's called reclaiming my voice, speaking out.
And it's an event where we're holding space for survivors of sexual violence to, again, own the telling of their healing stories. Right? Like, they don't owe us the stories of their trauma. And so anything that a survivor shares with us is a privilege to hear. And so we're holding the space and allowing them to take whatever space they want to share what that journey of healing has looked like.
And then just allowing the community to recognize that rape sexual violence is an epidemic. And so that means it's going to call for collective healing. And so that event is April 13th. If you want any more information about either of those events, you can actually reach us at www. Our writings on the wall.org.
And that's where, you know, you'll get more information, but we're really looking to go out there and just educate adolescents and support survivors. I did a workshop a couple of months ago, and it's called the released workshop. And my goodness. So many women in that space shared their experiences about being violated sexually, whether it was in their childhood, in their adulthood. And when you really sit down and think about how many moms, aunties, grandma, sisters, cousins, and friends share the story, share the trauma of being sexually violated, yet we still have to exist in our other roles.
It's time that, you know, our organization is really about allowing the space for a woman to say, I was raped. I was sexually assaulted. And the shame and the stigma are not attached to that. Right? Like, the shame and the stigma should be on the person that caused the harm, not on the survivor of the harm.
And so that's the space that we want to hold and create. Oh, I love it. I love it. I love it. It sounds so restorative, and it sounds like you're getting to infuse all of the things, all of the messages into that work.
Good. Yeah. Yeah. So, Anika, thank you so much. I enjoyed our conversation.
Likewise. I enjoyed our conversation, and I really hope that people look more into the organization. We will share that information in the description box below. Do you have any closing words? Oh, gosh.
I have so many. But first, I'll say that you keep hosting this amazing podcast. Love it. I love the conversation, and the guests that you put on. Season 1 was the bomb.
Definitely loved it. I think just holding the space for these conversations to take place because for many people, it might not be part of their everyday life. Right? Or maybe they never even thought about how they might be on their own liberation journey or even recognizing that they need to have a liberation journey. Right?
Like, we're out in that way. Maybe I'm not as free as I thought or as enlightened. Right? But I share with everyone that's listening that the work starts with you, and it's not a work that should be forced by anyone else, but it's the work that has to start with you so that you feel whole. Right?
And I think wholeness is what we all seek for, and that wholeness is on multiple levels. And so as you said earlier, this layers to it. It doesn't stop at the time of day's work. Right? Like trauma, the effects of trauma can be a long time.
You've had so many different inception of negative thoughts, and so it's going to take time to reframe, to shift, and to grow. And so we're worth it. Right? Like, you're worth it. You're worthy.
You're wonderful. You're like, we're worth the work to do so that we can live a free life, and don't allow anyone to stop you from existing. Yes. Thank you. There was nugget after nugget after nugget.
So the fact that you could even conjure, like, some more and give to the audience, I appreciate that. Alright, y'all. Thank you, and until the next time.
Thanks for listening. If you've loved what we've had to share and wanna be the first to get releases of our new episodes and learn about events, download our free app, Living Liberated, in the Apple or Google Play Store.
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